For the Record
Phil asked very nicely a day or so back how I actually "found" God.
Well, it just so happened that just before the close down of one of the Christian sites I used to visit, I rescued my "testimony". (A day or so later it had gone!)
So here it is, word for word from there and a little bit out of date but here it is - warts and all:
How I found Christ? A long and winding path if there ever was one. When I was a teenager, I was the most evangelical atheist you ever met. To my shame, I won many Christians over and destroyed there faith. One of them, a close friend of mine, attempted suicide as a consequence of what I told him - though this happened a few years later. That shook me hard. For years, I stopped "evangelising" to many people. I had a really unhealthy dislike for the church and the leadership in particular.
The strange thing was, when this was going on in my teens, I was invited to a Christian housegroup as the resident atheist. They were happy to let me air my views - (maybe they thought twice about that afterwards). They accepted me as a friend in every way and the leader whose house we met in became a very close friend. Though we would argue til the cows came home all the time. He tried to explain in rational terms about Christ and with my strong knowledge of science, I was able to cut his arguments up into little pieces. This went on and on but we never seemed to get on each others nerves - frustration yes, dislike never.
And then I did something which I had been prone to do. Because of a few things happening in my life, I decided that I didn't want to see this guy anymore and I very ruthlessly and deliberately fell out with him.
One thing I should mention about him, although I never agreed with a single thing he said about the faith, I found him so intriguing since he never ever told a lie. He seemed incapable of doing it. That was different.
Well, around 15 years later or so, I happened across this fellow again and we arranged to meet. For a few weeks or so, we met up on a weekly basis to have chats. This time it was different though. He did not try to reason with me or argue with me, he asked me questions about what I thought Jesus meant to others. Then he shared some of the things he had experienced over the recent couple of years which had changed his perception of God entirely. That left me with a puzzle. Either this guy was lying, or Christ was very real. And I knew that he couldn't lie.
It culminated in my agreement to spend two weeks not NOT believeing. I promised to give God a chance to show himself to me. It sounds weird, but any doubt or negative thought that came into my mind for just two weeks I would just get rid of. Within ten days, Jesus had shown himself very powerfully to me and I knew him for myself. I remember the exact moment when I fell to my knees and sobbed my heart out in repentance. I remember the burning feeling as all the wrongs I'd ever done, all the emotions I had repelled came flooding through me and passed onto Jesus. It was awesome and I felt so NEW. I should mention that just as most other times when God has revealed himself to me, I was on my own - cos He knows how sceptical I am of other people.
That was about three years ago now. I'm 33 and still so grateful. But as I might mention again, it wasn't the bible that converted me, or the truth about Jesus, it was the truth OF Jesus - as demonstrated by one of his disciples. I pray that maybe others might think the same of me that I did of that guy - who is now a very close friend.
Well, you did ask
Love,
Evo1
Well, it just so happened that just before the close down of one of the Christian sites I used to visit, I rescued my "testimony". (A day or so later it had gone!)
So here it is, word for word from there and a little bit out of date but here it is - warts and all:
How I found Christ? A long and winding path if there ever was one. When I was a teenager, I was the most evangelical atheist you ever met. To my shame, I won many Christians over and destroyed there faith. One of them, a close friend of mine, attempted suicide as a consequence of what I told him - though this happened a few years later. That shook me hard. For years, I stopped "evangelising" to many people. I had a really unhealthy dislike for the church and the leadership in particular.
The strange thing was, when this was going on in my teens, I was invited to a Christian housegroup as the resident atheist. They were happy to let me air my views - (maybe they thought twice about that afterwards). They accepted me as a friend in every way and the leader whose house we met in became a very close friend. Though we would argue til the cows came home all the time. He tried to explain in rational terms about Christ and with my strong knowledge of science, I was able to cut his arguments up into little pieces. This went on and on but we never seemed to get on each others nerves - frustration yes, dislike never.
And then I did something which I had been prone to do. Because of a few things happening in my life, I decided that I didn't want to see this guy anymore and I very ruthlessly and deliberately fell out with him.
One thing I should mention about him, although I never agreed with a single thing he said about the faith, I found him so intriguing since he never ever told a lie. He seemed incapable of doing it. That was different.
Well, around 15 years later or so, I happened across this fellow again and we arranged to meet. For a few weeks or so, we met up on a weekly basis to have chats. This time it was different though. He did not try to reason with me or argue with me, he asked me questions about what I thought Jesus meant to others. Then he shared some of the things he had experienced over the recent couple of years which had changed his perception of God entirely. That left me with a puzzle. Either this guy was lying, or Christ was very real. And I knew that he couldn't lie.
It culminated in my agreement to spend two weeks not NOT believeing. I promised to give God a chance to show himself to me. It sounds weird, but any doubt or negative thought that came into my mind for just two weeks I would just get rid of. Within ten days, Jesus had shown himself very powerfully to me and I knew him for myself. I remember the exact moment when I fell to my knees and sobbed my heart out in repentance. I remember the burning feeling as all the wrongs I'd ever done, all the emotions I had repelled came flooding through me and passed onto Jesus. It was awesome and I felt so NEW. I should mention that just as most other times when God has revealed himself to me, I was on my own - cos He knows how sceptical I am of other people.
That was about three years ago now. I'm 33 and still so grateful. But as I might mention again, it wasn't the bible that converted me, or the truth about Jesus, it was the truth OF Jesus - as demonstrated by one of his disciples. I pray that maybe others might think the same of me that I did of that guy - who is now a very close friend.
Well, you did ask
Love,
Evo1
posted by Evo1 at 5:40 PM
19 Comments:
You see, reading that, (and as a man of science myself) I would say that all along you wanted to find God. Jeezo, even as a child your mum and grandma used to knick-name you 'Holy Joe'! You hung out with other Christians it seems, almost taunting them to convert you (this is just as Im reading btw, I don't know the full episode) so, I think you sub-conciously went out to become a christian. Im sure you'll correct me if Im wrong!
I comment on this from the stand point of a devout athiest. I have read the bible, digested it and made my own mind up, but I certainly don't diminish your faith or belief, nor belittle you for finding your way - good on yer I say!
I don't remember the nickname - probably more to do with my middle name than anything else.
I remember well my conversion to atheism when I was 8.
It was certainly nothing sub-conscious. Somethings just cannot be explained any other way.
I always used to say it was no good astral projecting to the other side of the world and back again, if it's any use, it has to be just there and when you wake up you have actually done the distance. In many ways, things like this have happened - my sub-conscious had no say in it at all.
Yea the nickname was a reference to your middle name.
As I said, just reading the post, it struck me as being something subconcious
I think belief systems are a fascinating subject. When I read animal farm at the age of 11 or so, that opened my eyes to the whole 'opium of the masses' thing and got me thinking about it.
You're 33???? My arse I'm nearly 34 and your older than me. That would make you and red rover the same age.
That's why I said, "So here it is, word for word from there and a little bit out of date"
Are you addressing me Angela? I didn't mention being 33, but for the record, Im 36 on Sunday, so I'll expect a nice present :-)
Congrats on reaching 36 on Sunday Mark. I have been a very comfortable 36 now for some time.
In a few weeks, I hope to climb back into 34.
Lucy,
let me just try to clarify.
I am someone now and have always been someone who is interested in the philosophy of how life, the universe and everything came into being, evolved, continues to evolve etc. Hence I enjoyed then and enjoy now chatting with similar minded people - be they muslim, Christian, Hindu, atheist or whatever.
To say that I must have had a desire to have been converted then is no more valid than saying I now must have a desire to be converted back now. This wasn't valid then and it certainly isn't now.
In fact, there was no adrenalin rush better than arguing some Christian into a corner until they cracked and recanted. But sometimes, that can be a sorry state of affairs.
Heh Heh Evo, Im still a 32/31, although I would say Im tending more towards a comfy 32 these days, but after all that gardening - who knows :-)
Im 36 going on 18 though, I don't think I'll ever grow up or settle down - lifes way too short :-)
So am I.
I always say I am the perfect weight but could just do to be about 6 inches taller.
I'll give you the best present money can't buy........I'll be hundreds of miles away in Bath :)
I'm not sure I follow how that is relevant here.
firstly, thank you for explaining that to us, i was genuinely interested to know, i would say it didnt really connect with me and made not a lot of sense but that is just because i dont see there being any jesus to fall to my knees and beg for repentance to, but i respect your rights to do so, i am not mocking there im just saying it would be different for me than it is for you, i have a question to ask and let me say i ask this in all seriousness and there is no mockery or sarkiness here but i am serious, you say the christians tried to explain things to you but with your knowledge of science you cut them down in pieces, surely if like you have said before science hasnt got certain answers how was this possible? and like mark said good on you, i respect your views.
But the conundrum Phil is that I didn't believe there was any Jesus either. But the thing is,when you have an experience of meeting with someone, it is impossible after that to go on believing that they don't exist - but I also respect the fact that this makes no sense to you today - it would have made no sense to me either. (Notice I said he showed himself to me powerfully before I repented).
And the science thing, I spent most of my time debating things like evolution. Interestingly, I would still be having exactly the same arguments with the "creationists" who deny evolution. In fact, some groups of creationist I have a real problem with. (That's despite the fact that I am a creationist myself in the literal sense of the word rather than the "cult" sense of the word.
Also, we are talkng rather a long time ago here. Those were the days really when science - biology especially could explain much but was just waiting for that brekthrough which explained how it all got started. The answer in many of the books really was, "I expect something will turn up shortly". Reluctantly, they have moved away from this position and the great Richard Dawkins himself has arrived at the conclusion that thee things may well be unknowable.
Also, Heisenbergs uncertainty principle - which for so many years has stood unchallenged - was a great one of my proofs for the non existance of God. And I used it to good effect in dumbfounding those Christians. But my argument was flawed. And what's more, I knew it was at the time but I kept that to myself - it was such a handy device.
I didn't think this bit was relevant, "I believe that everyone who has been converted, or is being converted has a desire to be so"
The chats I had all those years ago was in no way a process of being converted - unfortunately, quite the opposite.
As I just said, I would be having much the same debates to day with people putting forward similar arguments.
So although I may agree with your sentiment, like I said, it is not relevant here.
i have just had a thought.........ok get the jokes over with, i know what ya gonna say.
how do you know you didnt want to be converted like some people have said here, you might not have thought you did, but looking at it from your side now, and taking the argument that there is a god, does it not say somewhere (and i may get the quote slightly wrong) god works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform, so it may have been part of his process. whoa thats a bit deep for me.
Oh, I know now for certain that it was part of his plan and that God was working through those times back in my youth.
But I also know I wasn't meant to be converted through them - because I wasn't. Had he wanted to, he would have done.
But my time as an atheist was worth much more to God than having me become a Christian at a young age. The bad things I did - some of them without realising of course - have really helped me to connect with other people now.
And I suppose that's the thing about redemption. You might have heard that God redeems our sins. Redemption doesn't mean to make as if they had never happened, it means to make better than if they'd never happened.
But as I'm sure you are aware, you need to be careful with this line of enquiry, because if it was true of me then, it must be true of you now ;)
i wouldnt think so
Then you see what I mean.
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